Hey kCs, DA here again. It had been a pretty uneventful Saturday morning following a pretty uneventful week out here in the Land of Enchantment; dog days of August and all that. As I lazily stumbled through a local Home Depot in search of I remember not what, I quite unexpectedly ran into the subject of my interview today. I first noticed him out of the corner of my eye, but wasn’t quite sure what to make of him. A sort of electric buzz or light and “angelic choir” sound seemed to emanate from his direction, not unlike that perfect ten chick that you spy from time to time if you’re lucky, except that the volume seemed to be cranked WAY up this time; all of which totally belied his dress and demeanor. The dude was decked out in nothing more than decidedly worn Carhartt carpenter’s jeans and an oversized pocket T, with beat up Merrell hiking boots and an old fashioned rolled-up blue kerchief bandana holding back his shoulder length (albeit obviously receding) hair to top off the ensemble. With the full beard, dark complexion, and weathered skin texture, he resembled nothing so much as a slightly aging hipster hanging out with nothing to do on a lazy early Saturday afternoon. His look conveyed, “Yeah, I’m a personal savior, but SO WHAT? I’m not trying to impress ANYBODY.” Not being a religious man, I was surprised at what transpired next:
DA: Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, is that YOU? JC: Shhh!!! Hold it down, would ya? I’m trying to get some shopping done here on my one day off! Do you have any idea how many church services I have to sit in on tomorrow? DA: Is that REALLY you? JC: Well of course it is, Einstein! Are you REALLY that surprised? DA: Well of course! JC: Why, Saviors don’t have shopping to do too? DA: Well, I dunno. I never really thought about it that way. JC: Perhaps you should. DA: OK, so what in the hell are you DOING HERE in the first place? JC: Why? Just where in hell SHOULD I be? DA: I dunno, in HEAVEN maybe? JC: Oh, like this ain’t it? [laughs out loud]. DA: Not really. JC: Have you ever spent time around GOD? [sardonic grin] DA: Obviously not. JC: Maybe you should [sardonic grin intensified]. He can be a bit grouchy at times, what with a whole universe to run and resisting evil and all that. DA: Maybe… [meekly]
DA: So, Jesus, do you have a minute? JC: For you DA, I’ve got an eternity! [LOLs and slaps me on the back!] DA: Seriously, I post to this blog every now and then… JC: Yeah, I know. DA: And… JC: Not bad. But you’ve obviously still got some work to do. But you knew that. DA: Yeah. JC: So why did you ask in the first place? DA: Well, it’s not every day you get a chance to interview the one and only son of God. JC: Oh, that…
[After resettling to back of store in the safety of the custom kitchen displays] DA: So Jesus, just what is it like to be the “son of god?” JC: Probably just like you would expect it to be. Not very nice all in all! I had NO IDEA what I was getting into with this gig when I signed up for it AT ALL! DA: How so? Just what part of “personal savior” didn’t you understand? JC: Oh, I dunno. Just what part of personal savior do YOU ALL not understand? Did you REALLY think that someone would be naïve enough to buy into the idea of “dying for your sins,” assuming you idiots were even smart enough to realize you HAD sins in the first place? DA: Yeah, I get your point. JC: Yeah, maybe for now. But let’s go on. DA: OK, but again, what’s it like to be the one the chosen one? JC: First of all, it’s overrated, and second of all, I’m not. That whole “only begotten son of god” thing was meant to be a bit of literary theater, which the “primitives” I was dealing with at the time intuitively “got,” but which you “advanced” 21st century numb skulls, for all your technological skills, do not. It simply makes no sense whatsoever in your current context and yet, still you perpetuate it, instead of simply moving on. Even God, that old curmudgeon, has more than a few knee slaps from time to time at that observation. DA: Wait, you’re not? JC: Of course not! Does the whole story line make any sense to you? A celibate all powerful God creates a male and female sex and the whole concept of procreation, then abstains from it himself and exalts those who do also as somehow “holier” than the rest, even though that’s the only way they can perpetuate their species. The story had a lot of holes in it right from the start, but then again, the people I was dealing with at the time weren’t exactly the brightest bunch, and they had their own agenda anyway. They were really into the whole self-denial thing back then. You’ve gotta remember, before I came along, it was all blood sacrifice and burnt offerings. Rocket scientists those people weren’t. DA: So you mean you’re not the product of a virgin birth? JC: Are you? DA: Not that I know of. JC: Well, there ya go. It made for one ripping good yarn, though, didn’t it?
DA: Well then, tell me about heaven. What’s it like? JC: Kind of boring really. A whole lot of sitting around and listening to you guys make appeals for special favors from down below. Hence the old man’s admonition not to use his name in vain. Do you have any idea how many responses that generates? Even with a small legion of angels manning the switchboards, it’s just overwhelming sometimes. DA: What about the furnishings? Must be pretty posh, huh? JC: Well, it’s not like Obama’s place [laughs heartily], but then again it’s just me and God ‘baching’ it, so we don’t need a whole lot. And hey, what’s the use of being a Supreme Being anyway if you gotta worry about what people think of the place? We have a few cute little angels come in twice a week and tidy up, and that’s that. The old man’s getting on in years now, so he doesn’t eat much, and I’ve been developing a little paunch myself, so I cut back too. Once God threw Lucifer out, things quieted down quite a bit.
DA: That’s right! Tell me about that! JC: Well, you know Satan was the first born, and like a lot of firsts, he had a bit of devil in him [Looks at me seriously, then doubles over in laughter]. Satan was a hell raiser right from the start, matter of fact he originated the term. Wild angel parties every night ‘til all hours, pranking on me and the old man, the whole bit. But even God had to admit, the dude had it all. Devilishly handsome, a smooth talker, witty, charming, and well… ahem… endowed, he was just a hard act to follow, even for a Supreme Being. So finally the old man tossed Satan and his whole entourage out and the rest, as they say, is history. DA: And thus began the battle for mankind’s immortal souls? JC: Yeah, I guess you could say that. Although the “battle” seems to be pretty one sided up to this point doesn’t it? DA: Yeah, I guess it does.
DA: So, tell me about your whole earth experience. JC: Well, it certainly wasn’t a hoot going out like that, but the old man thought I needed to make a dramatic gesture on the way out to get everyone’s attention. DA: And the miracles? JC: Well, there really was only one. Satan taught me how to do the water into wine trick before he took out on his own, and when you can pull that one off, you’d be amazed at what else you can convince people of afterward. DA: So you’re telling me it was all just the effects of the wine? JC: That and good old fashioned willingness to believe, but I DO conjure up some pretty mean wine if I do say so myself. DA: Ok, let’s move on to the Crucifixion, if you don’t mind talking about it. JC: Not at all. As I said, it was certainly no picnic, but the old man thought I should do something really dramatic to earn my title, and of course, to shake things up a little bit among you humans. Of course them damn Romans were only too willing to oblige. [laughs] DA: And the resurrection? JC: The wine and willingness to believe again… DA: That’s all? JC: That’s all. As I said, you humans ARE fond of the dramatic flourishes! DA: And the second coming? JC: Once again, drama. DA: No triumph of good over evil? JC: Nah. That’s not my thing. Besides, that’s what YOU GUYS are here to figure out.
DA: So you’re saying the whole story line was just a sham all along? JC: Yep! But one YOU GUYS foisted upon YOURSELVES. The old man and I just look on in amazement as it continues to unfold. DA: What? No divine intervention!?! JC: You act surprised. Listen, what would be the point? The whole story line makes no sense whatsoever. Never has. I mean if we were truly all powerful, what would be the point of a “battle” between good and evil at all? And wouldn’t that mean that we weren’t all powerful in the first place? Of course it would. DA: So what IS the point of it all then” JC: The point of it all DA, is for YOU ALL to figure that question out for YOURSELVES! God and I, we’re just sub-conscious PROJECTIONS of yours in a rather pitiful attempt to make sense of things that you as a species, at this point in time at least, have NO CONCEPTION of WHATSOEVER! And as you begin to figure out the answers to those questions, assuming you ever actually do of course, your conceptions of God and I, good and evil, the whole ball of wax, will begin to change as well. You’ll begin to realize that “eternal” doesn’t equate to “changeless,” but in fact means constantly changing and evolving, albeit around a thread of eternal continuity. DA: You’re not really here then, are you, and I’m not really talking to you, am I? JC: Only in your head DA, but of course you already knew that.
DA: OK then, well perhaps I should wrap this up then? Any parting shots while I’m still imagining you? JC: You’ve got a pretty good story here DA, so you should put it out there. Granted, very few people will read it, and fewer still will get any meaning out of it; matter of fact, it will likely piss a few off. But it’s good work anyway, and you should never discount the ripple effect that your words and deeds can have for good OR for ill. And the takeaway? You all on earth, and I mean ALL OF YOU, the microorganisms, the plants, the animals, the humans, the environment you live in, ALL OF IT!, are IN THIS THING TOGETHER! Your collective fates are joined in ways that you cannot even BEGIN to imagine yet. So perhaps you humans in particular might want to start keeping that in mind and changing up your act a bit. Cause if you don’t, your time will be running out very shortly, and I’m not coming back again to magically sort it all out for you. And THAT’S a promise! See ya around DA! And hey, give my regards to the devil [laughs and fades]!
kulturCritic 
Woops!
[Sounds of crickets]
ok, i’ll bite. but just for a bit, game is delayed, waiting for the coals to die down , wouldn’t want to burn my hormone infested chicken.
yeah, so of course you can’t prove existence or non-existence of a supreme being, whether earth mother or all father, so?
people can believe what they want, and yes they have to defend it if they bring it into the public realm, but again, so what?
govt. and politics is precisely the conflict between what people think, and they don’t have to have a reason to believe whatever they want, this is the dilemma.
you could also argue that all of science itself is a certain view of the world, the strictly rationalist, the empirical, but a cynic or stoic could argue that even empirical observation suffers from it’s own presupposition, that being that we can observe all their is to observe.
rationalism itself can turn into just cold heartless logic.
this week has been busy, i want to get into this, but i’m going to go watch grown men knock each other down, so sue me.
I must admit, I still like to watch consenting grown men knock each other down too.
All approaches to reality are ultimately limited. Science can’t make sense of everything, whereas religion for the most part simply says why even try. Somewhere in the middle is a balanced approach that is the best we can do, given the fact that we can by definition never figure it all out living in an infinite universe.
i’m all for limiting hits, saw one pro game at Arrowhead, in person you just cannot believe how fast these guys are, TV really slows the game down.
if they want to turn it into an offensive showcase and limit the violence i’m all for it.
Sandy should be happy, i think the Broncos are his team.
I think all they really want to limit is class action lawsuits from impacting their bottom line. The hits are, as they say, part of the game. And what the hell. The players know what they’re signing on for. It’s basically combat without guns or drones (although we could fix that too, I guess) for riches and glory. If they’re willing to take the risk, who are we to deprive them? And they truly are AMAZING athletes! The absolute pinnacle of evolutionary and pharmaceutical development.
yo, my man, you told me this was all off the record.
I received a special “holy dispensation” for recognizing him that day. It was a little promotional thing that one of the angels in marketing suggested, what with church attendance and prayers down at the end of the summer and all that.
what in the h*ll are you talking about? dispensations cost money, i never received my payment.
Checks in the mail baby!
Wow! The crickets really are a chirping on this one. I knew it would make a few people uncomfortable, but what the hell. I thought it was a pretty good treatment of a subject that most people don’t want to touch; namely, that absent some sort of proof that we can all agree on (and the Bible and other “holy books” don’t qualify), walking around talking about God and/or Jesus as “personal saviors” is nothing more than granting legitimacy to voices in your head. Socially sanctioned childish/insane behavior. Personally, I’d like to give this to everyone I know who comes up spouting that crap to me, but then again, they’d never read it anyway. Not that I’m really wound up on the matter anymore. I just like to poke fun at it from time to time.
On another similar note, I happened to catch The Life of Pi on the idiot tube a few days after I wrote this. A decent movie all in all, for the special effects alone. Synapsis here: WikiP.
And I quote:
Life of Pi, according to Yann Martel, can be summarized in three statements- “Life is a story… You can choose your story… A story with God is the better story.”[12] A recurring theme throughout the novel seems to be believability. Pi at the end of the book asks the two investigators “If you stumble about believability, what are you living for?”[13] According to Gordon Houser there are two main themes of the book: “that all life is interdependent, and that we live and breathe via belief.”[14]
So, I guess my response would be, as it is to all my Christian friends: I have no problem with your belief system, as long as you realize that it is just a personal belief system in the first place. Which is to say, you can’t go about babbling nonsense in the public realm about things for which you have no proof (and which are, furthermore, more often than not provably false) and expect anyone to take you seriously. Moreover, if any significant number of people actually do take you seriously, then we’ve ALL REALLY got a problem, since now your particular brand of insanity has begun to infect the public realm. Which is what we’ve got today in the west with the unholy trinity of Judaism, Islam and Christianity. And NO! Majority rules DOES NOT legitimate insanity!
In short: Wanna tell yourself stories at night to make yourself feel better? I’m OK with that, provided: 1.) You realize that they ARE just stories in the first place, and 2.) You check your stories at the door whenever you enter the public square, OR, be prepared for the consequences from those of us who don’t subscribe to them, and 3.) Realize that everyone else has their OWN personal stories that they tell themselves to get by, and that they are NO LESS legitimate.
Sorry, couldn’t resist. But YES, if it makes anyone feel better, Jesus/Allah/Buddha told me to post that last comment too.
well, see DA, you had to go talking to my boy, him with all that peace and love stuff. why something like that, it could sap all the goodness and joy right out of a chelloveck.
“But, brothers, this biting of their toe-nails over what is the cause of badness is what turns me into a fine laughing malchick. They don’t go into the cause of goodness, so why the other shop? If lewdies are good that’s because they like it, and I wouldn’t ever interfere with their pleasures, and so of the other shop. And I was patronizing the other shop. More, badness is of the self, the one, the you or me on our oddy knockies, and that self is made by old Bog or God and is his great pride and radosty. But the not-self cannot have the bad, meaning they of the government and the judges and the schools cannot allow the bad because they cannot allow the self. And is not our modern history, my brothers, the story of brave malenky selves fighting these big machines? I am serious with you, brothers, over this. But what I do I do because I like to do. ”
Little Alex
but seriously, i will get back with you, been preoccupied, but i do, of course, have some thoughts.
as is my wont i reply in short bursts, flip at first, then a bit more serious. i must agree with you about the unholy trinity, they seem to be causing quite a bit of upset and suffering around the world. zealots of any stripe cause trouble when they want to impose their views on others.
having said this, isn’t this exactly the problem with societies? any hierarchical arrangement depends upon polity, there is always this trade off, whether the authority rests lightly or heavily upon the people.
don’t take this digression to mean i am not in complete sympathy with your point, there are things being done in the name of religion, especially to women, which are simply unconscionable.
Sandy,
A simple painting this week, but superbly rendered. The detail is remarkable!
DA
Now you’ve done it!! You have just earned yourself a job as a grounding rod!! Watch the weather carefully, dude.
But seriously, I have met few Christians who actually get the point. That it is a personal belief and it is not to be imposed upon others. Chris Hedges’ book American Fascists is a good example of running amok. Great story, DA.
Thanks Ron. I’ve always prided myself on being well grounded, and accordingly, I’ve taken my fair share of strikes. Christians (in particular) and all others “of faith” need to take a breath and realize, once again, that for better or worse, WE’RE ALL IN THIS MESS TOGETHER, REGARDLESS OF BELIEF!
Hedges always leaves me conflicted. I’ll have to Google his latest and check it out. Thanks!
DA
From Kunstler comment land, this one:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/new-study-politics-makes-you-innumerate
is actually pretty damn good.
you can’t go about babbling nonsense in the public realm about things for which you have no proof (and which are, furthermore, more often than not provably false) and expect anyone to take you seriously
Ummmm…..Christians certainly aren’t the only ones guilty of this, and it’s not just reserved for Religionistas either. Many pundits, if not all, of Collapse are guilty of it too. They, afterall, have their own brand of eschatology.
Take Kunstler for example, since someone brought that jackass up. He continually proclaims untruths even when said untruths have been proven incorrect. He’s an egotistical sociopath who is either consciously duplicitous or a naive, opportunistic huckster going after the easy racist buck. Either way, most of the time he doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about…..especially on technical matters of finance. He throws a few buzzwords your way to make it appear he does know, but it’s clear he doesn’t, and it’s clear he doesn’t want to know since that’s not his point or his aim.
For example, he continually claims QE is creating and/or printing money, when it is no such thing. This has been brought to his attention by those more knowledgeable than him on the topic, and he chooses to ignore the disconfirming information and proclaim the untruth that QE is creating/printing money, and his audience, bigoted reactionaries that they are, eat it up and say “yeah, Jim, yeah!”
“QE is creating and/or printing money, when it is no such thing,” What is no such thing. Is QE a thing, or a financial concept or what? It would be nice if you would explain just what QE is then, in your mind of course since no one else seems to see it from your point of view.
Quantitative easing (QE) is an unconventional monetary policy used by central banks to stimulate the national economy when standard monetary policy has become ineffective.[1][2] A central bank implements quantitative easing by buying specified amounts of financial assets from commercial banks and other private institutions, thus increasing the monetary base.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing
please see the previous essay,
Life in the Land of Make Believe (Living in La-La Land)
call it what you want, it is increasing the money supply and giving the profits (if there are any profits) to the super-rich who have money to play this deadly game.
i think most posters here are sophisticated enough to know this is Electronic money.
Good reply and thanks as we here all do know it is basically play money 0’s and 1’s with only agreed upon worth.
Not to mention the fact that most of the “financial assets” they’re buying up are of dubious value, at best.
Wow! Lots of anti-Kunstler venom here this week. When it comes to finance, I’m not sure the field hasn’t been so polluted with dis- and misinformation that no one understands what’s going on anymore.
But yeah, I will admit, the Christians aren’t the only one’s full of shit. That’s an equal opportunity capability. Although they are, for the most part, a whole lot more vehement and pompous than most in their spouting of said shit.
it is however a pretty neat trick, turning a posting of a link to Mother Jones into an attack of your politics.
Mother Jones, used to read it religiously, along with The Progressive, The New Republic, The Utne Reader, and on, and on.
politics is the new religion, vary a bit from the doctrinaire position and you shall be cast out into the nether regions, where you shall wander in the political wilderness, not be invited to talk shows, excoriated as to your lack of enlightenment…………………
you might just run into a Heretick out there……………………….
That was kinda funny. The article is about nothing more than the fact that political views – whether left OR right – skew people’s abilities to think rationally regarding numbers. Which seems pretty obvious to me, with or without a scientific paper to document it.
And while we’re at it, QE IS essentially printing “printing money” (such an awkward term!), in that the Fed is buying up worthless assets from smaller banks (presumably to sell later, once they’ve inflated the next asset bubble) for the most part (otherwise, why would banks be willing to part with them), thus enabling the banks to free up reserves on their balance sheets so that that they can do what banks do – make interest bearing loans – thereby creating money “from thin air” (another awkward and overused term), which is how money is ALWAYS created. As debt!
So to argue about exactly what QE is or isn’t is somewhat pointless. The goal, as you correctly noted HT, is to expand the monetary base, in the probably futile attempt to get people throwing it around again on worthless shit that we don’t need and can’t afford, expanded monetary base or not. It’s a desperate policy meant for desperate times, and over the long term it will almost certainly be disastrous. But then gain, money as debt – being nothing more than an elaborate institutionalized confidence game – is ALWAYS guaranteed to fail over the long term, which is why it was proposed by bankers and adopted by their paid politician cronies in the first place. They knew that the people who already have the most always come out on top during the ensuing meltdowns, so what’s not to love?
where you shall suffer the tortures of the damned, sir, the tortures of the damned, if you insist upon putting forth expositions such as this.
Most of it just common knowledge to those of us who simply pay attention. Luckily for the plutocrats, most of the American dumbasscracy is too busy playing with their iphones to notice. Been taking the bus for the past week and have been amazed yet again at the level of distraction out there, especially among the young. I think mental meltdown will be epidemic if the devices ever get shut down, never mind the grocery trucks stop delivering. The poor urchins might have to… gasp… actually speak to someone face to face again.
it is however a pretty neat trick, turning a posting of a link to Mother Jones into an attack of your politics.
Mother Jones, used to read it religiously, along with The Progressive, The New Republic, The Utne Reader, and on, and on.
politics is the new religion, vary a bit from the doctrinaire position and you shall be cast out into the nether regions, where you shall wander in the political wilderness, not be invited to talk shows, excoriated as to your lack of enlightenment…………………
I think you could be my long lost “other brother!” When I first retired from the USAF I was ON FIRE with political fervor! Alas, fortunately (or not), we grow wiser and see the truth of things. Which reminds me, I’ve been meaning to post this for awhile now (double feature, I’m partial to the Byrds):
From Kunstler comment land, this one:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/new-study-politics-makes-you-innumerate
is actually pretty damn good.
Of course, this is lifted and deposited here without context, meaning who posted it at CFN and their ideology. Oh my the irony since the point of the article is about the castrating effect of ideology on the intellect. The poster who deposited it is a right wing, gun nut reactionary who believes, and has said so on many occasions, that immigration is the most important issue to focus on to solve America’s problems, and he links to NumbersUSA, a racist website created by and for racists, repeatedly. He and Kunstler have an email relationship, meaning they are acquaintances and Kunstler allows him to spam the board with repeated links to the site and spam his hateful message that America’s woes are because of blacks and minorities of any and all stripe.
Fair to say you REALLY don’t care for the Kunstler crowd I guess. I don’t really pay attention to the personalities or biases over there. Just occasionally scan the comments.
So Q, did Jimmy K ban you, or what? Do tell. By the way, I reread the article at the link I posted just to be sure. A simple study documenting nothing more than the fact that political biases affect people’s abilities to make sense of numerical data. Not even surprising, to my mind at least. You’re overreacting. I like a good conspiracy theory as much as anyone out there, but you’re way off base here.
It would be nice if you would explain just what QE is then, in your mind of course since no one else seems to see it from your point of view.
I see it from Q. Shtik’s point of view, so to what group are you referring when you say “no one else?” It’s telling you assert this though. It’s an appeal to authority rather than reason. That’s a tactic employed by all manner of zealous ideologues. It appears you’ve jumped from one ideological frying pan to the other and you’ve lost your ability to numerate if you ever possessed eh skill. Dutiful research will reveal, if you have an open mind, why QE is not what Kunstler and many others in the collapse community claim it is. I’ll be damned if I’m going to spend the time schooling you when your mind’s already made up. That would be tantamount to arguing with fundamentalist Christians that there is no Jesus. That’s Q. Shtik’s point.
Thanks for making my point and in such an Authoritarian style. Your buttons are showing.
Another Kunstler refugee. He must be cleaning house over there.
So, Ozone, why not first tell US ALL what QE is from your POV? Perhaps that would be the pace to start?
Assuming we’re in the musical portion of our weekly festivities now, I offer up this quasi-religious/philosophical offering from a quasi-religious/philosophical band of my youth who attained some notoriety in the late 70’s before succuming to all of the usual pitfalls of rock-stardom and aging in general in a capitalist economy. Nonetheless, they’ve withstood the test of time and are mostly all back together again and apparently producing some fairly decent stuff if you’re into their sort of thing:
Safe to say, no ‘Flock of Seagulls’, these, eh?
old stuff, their first album was really the best. fairly obscure. Jerry Goodman went on to play with Mahavishnu Orchestra.
fairly obscure
i saw a later incarnation of The Guess Who with Dominic Troiano, one of the 5 best shows i have ever seen, Burton Cummings may be the best performer…………………
this doesn’t really quite capture it. lot funkier when you’re on the 4th row.
Guess Who was topping out when I graduated in ’76. Fucking GREAT band! Even reading their Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guess_Who now it’s hard to figure out what went wrong. Color Styx, Boston, Kansas, and even Pink Floyd and others similarly I guess. Didn’t seem like musical tastes changed all that much, but I guess they did. Not that the 80’s were all that great either.
yeah, again the internal dialog with yourself through showing it through the humanazied concept of god… a lil bit boring as if you read your own school essay about the role of taxes in the modern society and you know beforehand all the ideas you wrote long time ago.
Yeah maybe. But the point is that it IS just an internal dialogue, which apparently a great many people don’t get these days.
I understand what is going on with the satire and the in your head beliefs that has been passed down from one generation to the next as social control and power over resources. Many so called Christians would be plenty offended by the comments. I am happy that you have done this, it is needed.
Thanks. A little satirical prodding from time to time is always a good thing, especially when it comes to religion.